The Imageless Mirror

Man-- a person-- makes judgements on himself about every day:
1) what time to get up, 2) who to meet with 3) what to have
for breakfest other meals, 4) what to do the rest of the day, etc...
Along the way some may, make judgements on this man,
and vice versa. But, is it formal, if no jurisdiction, thus a mere
opinion.. Jung does not have a basis for his opinions in
many instances.. Once some one in power in Laramie told
Spence, he never would amount to much.
He never let some one's opinion( judgement) define him.

Anonymous: You missed the point of the quote, though you lack the metacognition understand why. I'm glad you've found meaning in your life through Gerry Spence. Most need a personal Jesus; though it often amuses me that many of Spence's disciples are proud atheists. As if the substitution of one messiah for another makes one an individual!
P.S. Never trust an autobiography.

Mike,
You missed the reflection of the mirrors.
My life is not one that has meaning via G Spence. I merely noted what was the way some mirrors are viewed by some. Spence started out with a few rough spots in his life, some saying he would not amount to much, seeking to define him. Does that happen to many ?
You know nothing of me, or Jesus in relationship to much today, or my beliefs.
What are the judgements of others worth relative to some event, or man--a person. ?
Well, I suppose we could go into that in some length, but not sure Norm has enough space in this section, or he might find it to be too tedious.
Oh, yes, that thing about Spence, and God, and his mocking God.
Metacognition, such jargon.
By the way, why did you assume I found meaning in my life through Spence, it that some more of that cult thing, the in vogue from Columbia U sorts ? Or, is it your projection having to do with you own bagagge on Spence.
Spence means nothing to me in any meaingful way.
Is it you Mike who is caught up in the Norm network on this and the TLC ?
Why do you presume I have even gone to the
TLC ?
I did read Spence's book, and his section where the shrink in Denver said he was a dangerous man, a danger to himself and others, and wanted to do electo- shock treatments on G S.
I thought it took a lot of guts for Spence to write that.
It had nothing to do with me, my life, I read a lot of books, and that does not mean i live my life by some who I read about.
Some how, you assume that any who comment are caught up in this psycho drama at the ranch, now some NET extended-drama, or so contrived, where Rex says, this but he wrote that, and Norm's life.
Do you or Norm think you are the guys holding the mirrors ?
Really, interesting.
Most need a personal Jesus you opine.
Who is your's Mike, or are you on that island ?
Also, how are you so in tune with the religious beliefs of Spence's intercircle ?
Why would you not assurme they are Catholic, or Mormon, or Lutherrn, or a few Jews, or a few who scratch their head and are not sure who the Saviour is, if any..? Still searching, still wondering, etc.
For you to go there shows it is you caught up in some Spence matrix.
First, of all the quote is not very well written.(this Jung thing above)
Man is not an "it"
That is unless you now think man is a machine, devoid of that which is human.
Gee, which way is the mirror reflecting now Norm/ Mike ?
I have noticed that some of those who profess to be in this great TLC web, seem to not be very good readers, or have a bad memories on Spence's book(the bio one).
Yes, I realize bio's can be self- serving, sometimes.
Some said that nothing was known of Spence's father.
That is not true.
If one read's a book, one does so as to an others life.
Didn't Norm read a lot of books, is his life tied to all those he read about, who he never met.
The thing about an ANNON, is that is is not giving you the light upon which to judge in any full depth.
Do you like to judge, Mike- With so little to render that..?
Also, that thing about man is an event, I find that to be very poorly written. I judge it to be not very artful.
Man is a person involved in many events, from birth, to ................ death.
Well, I suppose as a lawyer, you must have been involved in many judgements, rulings from some judges.
I suppose you could say my post is an exhibit No 1, it shows i am a cultist, deep inside the Spence cult.
Isn't that the knee jerk reaction of that Columbia NY/ E coast club think ?
I think it is you Mike, who may lack some properly adjusted mirrors.
But, Norm is now into his study of Jesus phase, and he contrasts Gerry in his professed distain for religion, or believers, in some braod swoops.
I actually met Spence once about 35 years ago, at some Club/ Bar in the Tetons, he had never formed his TLC, etc. A mutual friend introduced us. Never seen him since.
I have no interest in going to the RANCH, I am not caught up in Rex said, or Rex wrote, or the fear promoted in some can't speak openly on list- serve.

Mike:
This is you:
"Mike has also studied trial advocacy under some of the greatest trial lawyers in the country; he graduated from Gerry Spence's Trial Lawyers College Regional Seminar, and Gerry Spence's Trial Lawyers College Advanced Regional Seminar, and he just passed the California Bar Exam. So he's well prepared. Don't let his easy going, friendly manner fool you–he'd love nothing more than to beat the shit out of you in court."(f/ lawcrossing)
So, it is you who has been living your life through Spence.
And, has Norm, both of whom started this cult thing, blawg style
And on your Jesus bait, you throw out ?
My, my, Mike, that 5 signs of a cult you put out, was that some self-help.
Must not have worked, huh Mike.
As to an auto-bio, yes, one should take with a grain of salt, but look how the mirrors shine now, Mirror Mirror on the wall is Mike now the fairest of 'em all, after he did not get full deprograming after his 5 SIGNS.
Mirror mirror on the HALL, is Pepperdine the rankest of 'em all(Gerry's speech on law schools are a fraud).
Mirror, mirror on the Wall, this cult thing on the blawgs, by professional BLOG-metacognitive clubbers,
Something else Mike, all the trails on this.

TLC is nothing more than a cult with members who worship Spence almighty, defend him no matter what he does or how he treats people. The cult members can't bear the thought that Spence might be lying to them or using them to build his own legacy. And the cult members fear being tossed out of the cult or ostracized by other members. It is a sad, pathetic and sick organization lead by an aging narcissist and his hand picked apostles.

Anon: What a spectacular laugh you just gave me. Thank you. As a young man, I was a frivolous, hero-worshiping douchebag. I grew up. Why haven't you?

Mike:
thank you for the compliment.
I am of SS age, old enough to get
free ski passes, free coffee at some
reastraunts, I am glad you got a laugh
from my posts.
The young could use a few more
laughs.
Oh, so now you use that you
were just a young wet behind the
ears, Pepperdine U guy, when you
went to the ranch.
Now, you are causing me a few yuck, yucks.
I don't know the all of what Spence
told you, so I am sure we will hear all
the gory details on the tramua it
inflicted on you in the Wind River
Range.
Grow up, get a life, isn't that standard
blog reply 101.
Mike, you are not being very origional.
Your cult con started with that NY blogger,
at Simple Justice
you are a riot Mike, did Ken
Starr indoctrinate u @ Pepperdine..?
My my, it gets deeper.

Anon: In searching "deeper" for me, you are revealing more about yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself what your obsessive actions say about yourself. It all starts with you.
As for me: If I had any sense, I would have manipulated many of the relationships I've been offered over the years. Alas, my own pathologies prevent me from using and being used.
Then again, at least my friends know that I love them rather than use them. Can Spence say the same of his friends?
By the way, Norm and I disagree fundamentally about Spence. I pity Spence, and think he lives in a cage of his own creation - but one that he's afraid to leave. Spence has followers instead of friends. Even when surrounded by people, Spence is the loneliest man in the room.
Even someone as anti-social as I wouldn't want to live in Spence's cell of solitary confinement. He's a very lonely man, and I will always feel sorry for him.

Mike:
Have you got a missing father story, too,
some L A version, now that you have gone
beyond the bar mirrors of
your d-bag claims fresh out of Pepperdine,
and now it is some years down stream from
the ranch hand days, and the Oprah appearances
never came for you.
Gee, what kind of mirrors, is
Norm putting up after his trip to
Rome, this saga is taking another turn,
some beyond the Looking Glass
curves.

Anon: No father issues or Oprah envy here. Your lack of insight bores me. Take care.

Mike is right on. Spence has no real friends and is truly one if the lonliest people I have ever met. He chased Garvin Isaacs away who now will not even speak to Spence. He uses evryone to fill his narcissistic needs and those in his cult use him to feel important. He is a sad, lonely, old man. The media doesn't care about him, his last few books have bombed and no one will print those he has recently written. Spence has become irrelevant and it his desperation that fuels his need to build a monument to himself. But Spence does not and cannot accept the truth. He thinks his presence at any event should result in hundreds of people flocking to see him. But only his cult members care about him and what he has to say. Most people don't even know who he is.

I don't know that I agree with you. For example, I actually did know John Johnson very well--and wholly apart from TLC. He believed that Gerry had a gift for real, long term friendship and he counted himself among several people he viewed as true friends. I can also tell you that Gerry did some remarkable and very generous things for John when he was sick, including financing John's daughter's education. None of it was done publicly and, in fact, I'm probably violating John's privacy by disclosing it.
I trust John's opinions and judgments and he also viewed Gerry as having true friendships with Bob Rose, Joe Cardine, and several of his law partners. Now, John, Bob, and Joe have all passed away and I'm not in a position to opine as to the quality or quantity of Gerry's friendships now--I simply don't know. But generalizations trouble me, particular when people only see one small aspect of a person, in one context. Beth K.

Mike,
You seem to have some need to bash Spence.
You seem to promote that among others.
Most people have no clue who Mike is, despite his crying out for attention in all his BLOGO spins.
Is you activity deep in the Blog world some real world for you Mike(or so you think as to what you consider real.. ?)
You say, some responding to you shows who they are.
No, your cult con says who you are Mike.
Sure, Spence is an old man, he is over 80 years old.
A lot of old men, are trapped in that lonely trap. But, Spence seems to be doing very well for an 80 year old man.
You deep deep vortex trapped in the Net, of BLOGO land, says just too much for me to cover here.
Norm is an intelligent, an interesting writer, I am going to have to take a pass on any more commenting on your stuff Mike, you are
beyond the mirror glazes at this point.
Good luck in getting that life beyond blogo Land, Mike, there must be 100's of more cons for you to run besides your cult con, all cooked up by the BLOG-O-Sphere wonders,
who can hardly find the court house doors.
I could say a lot more on that Mike about you, but you would say that points up more on me, in some tired old knee jerk blogo pattern you are trapped in.
You are clueless on most people, Mike.
Again good luck, in the law, and the profession of law, if that is really what you think you cup of tea is.
You got all that BLOGO stuff pumping you were at the Spence this, the Spence that, the ranch here, the ranch there all over the WWW...
Say, are you bipolar Mike, just wondering ?
For an 80 year old guy Spence is AOK.
Maybe you can wedge things with, Norm, etc, run you cons on others etc.
But you left that bipolar trail all over the WWW, MIKE, it screams out as to who you are, but if you are AOK with it, hey, that is you..

Norm Pattis appears to be an accomplished trial lawyer, because of Norm Pattis, and not Gerry Spence.
Howevers, others who are not real deal stand up, like heavy duty trial lawyers, have used the Spence name in some ad gimmicks, like a Grad of Spence this, Spence that.
Some of those are now going BI-POSTAL...
They know who they are.

The leadership of TLC is at it again. Just found out they plan to drastically reduce the participation of the psychodramatists in the future to only one per regional seminar instead of 3 like they just had in OH or 2 like they have had at every Regional I have attended over the past few years. What the F? Who do we get instead? More proof that TLC is being destroyed brick by brick. Pretty soon there won't be any psychodrama at TLC programs. All the certified lawyer psychodramatists have been forced out. Maybe it is time for the mental health psychodramatists to take their talents elsewhere. Guess Spence has forgotten his roots.

This is all over the WWW
"Mike Cernovich seems to think that the legal blogsphere has gone to pot. No, he’s not suggesting that legal bloggers want to legalize marijuana to solve the California deficit, rather, blogging is being “overrun by shallow marketing and exclusive cliques.”( from VMO marketing a marekting WWW site)
Yes, right from the horses mouth.
So, Rex does not seem to believe all the horse pucky being spread by Mike(a professional bloggeer) on TLC is much to worry about.
Mike you got too deep into the blog-o-sphere, seeming to find little in the practice of law to make much of yourself in that profession.
That thing where you project on to others you feelings on Spence, it seems a serious problem of yours.
Spence has never been my Jesus, my hero, my Ranch Master, my LOGO my ad thing all over the WWW.
But, as to you Mike, it is all over the WWW, etc Blog-o-sphere.
It his site is or is not one going to pot in, your words, well, your Spence cult con, must have gotten Norm to think it boosted some Blog Meter--here.
Watch it run out--now.

Both, Norm and Mike are hitch hiking on
Spence's fame..
On the one hand they exploit that.
Then, in their parallel cyber universe,
they do their cult con on TLC
is a personalty farm.
Do they even see their own hypocracy
in those mirrors of cyber beaming
translucent micro- waved laser
frequencies ?
What webs they weave--- WWW

Mike sees Jesus in all
who defend Spence.
It is truly a mriacle.
Glory be to the highest.
Amen, brothers & Sisters.

Gerry's own words and actions are a reflection of his awareness and therefore have created the current situation with TLC.
Gerry is clearly medicating his emptiness and the vacuum.

It is obvious he experienced some trauma as a young boy and has paternal and maternal issues that have surfaced throughout his life in his distain with authority figures and lack of respect for women.
In the 1996 autobiography “The Making of a Country Lawyer” Gerry referring to Imagine (current wife) as a “black bitch” to his ski partner John Johnson @ Rendezvous Peak in the Tetons. (page 394, p4) and again refers to her as a “black –headed bitch” (page 395,p8) On this day Gerry was married to Anna and Imagine was having lunch with her husband at the Alpenhof restaurant @ Rendezvous Peak. This behavior of Gerry’s clearly demonstrated a lack of respect for women and boundaries. He continued to rationalize his behavior over and over again in the pages of his autobiography in stating “the god’s still playing with me” and then to his wife Anna he said,”We must have the courage to destroy this rotting bed... for the sake of the kids” Anna responds in questioning Gerry about his duty to her and their children and continues “If the love is gone, you took it away, and gave it to her.” (page 409, p4)
We don’t want to view our hero as a narcissist, yet clearly Gerry is and always has been.
We don’t want to acknowledge the hold narcissists have on us.
We also live in denial about the part we play or played in the creation of this narcissist Gerry and the perpetuation of his behavior. Yes, those of us who surround Gerry @ TLC and his law firm and use his name when promoting ourselves in the legal profession. We are responsible for what we created because we enable Gerry, condone his behavior when it was/is directed towards someone other than ourselves. Yes we tolerated his negative and destructive behavior.
Gerry has clearly demonstrated that he is the biggest narcissist; totally narcissistic, all about his ego.
He is useless, unless he is in front of a camera.
My questions to Gerry are-
What is it like to actually think a bunch of losers that like you, make you worth something?
Because that’s really what you think of the people who surround you and build up your ego. (the little people)
Doesn’t it make you feel more empty because you have all these little people on the TLC board, foundation board and your law firm?
You must feel lonely and useless.

Well, Norm, I got a copy of MD&R. Wish me luck, as I read slowly.
Lilys

Annon- 18:
Gerry was very candid on his divorce
his life at a much younger man.
You read, in some ways, what are
your own projections.
On emptiness, that is some subjective
judgement.
Gerry used some, others used Gerry, hitch
hiking on his fame for their own
marketing agenda to troll for biz.
As to what is deemed Spence's destructive
behavior, what has he destroyed ?
Annon left that a blank, a void..
Why is his 2nd marriage even relevant
to what Norm opened up ?
So, Gerry has an ego.
Most trial attorneys do, they are not
shy, etc..

L:
take it slow and enjoy. He performed a fascinating experiment using the material at hand -- himself!
N

As to what is deemed Spence's destructive
behavior, what has he destroyed ?
Do people count? Do people's feelings count?
Recent actions Gerry took regarding cleansing @TLC. Eliminating people from positions for his personal control.
There is a pattern here...he eliminated John Nolte, Garvin Issacs, Charlie Abourezk. Didn't even mention them in the video that was shown at the 80/15 celebration.
See August 30th - Censorship in Paradise?
TLC staff member Carl Bettinger speaks his truth (promoted by Gerry to give honest feedback about "how they were feeling" about the presentation.
This is clearly destructive behavior.
Hyprocrisy is written all over his legacy now.
So unfortunate for an individual and for us who once viewed him as a hero.
Yet, it is what it is.
No sugarcoating the reality.

" Little people" is the reference in the Spence
1996 book to the clients of his firm.
His Jackson Hole law Firm has not won every
civil case it filed. That Firm is not a D. A.
So, if his Firm has lost a number of cases,
how can Gerry tout that as a " win",
then have other law firms promote the
image of a never losing Gerry in some
marketing gimmicks ?
Do any care about honest marketing
in matters, since it impacts those who
Gerry refers to as " the little people", clients,
to whom professional duties are
owed.
But, Gerry will not come on
this site to address his personal
matters.
But, " little people" was a reference in
his book to his law firm's clients,
Like the ex Miss Wyoming who got
no money, but Spence's book misleads
readers with the impression she got
many millions.
Does his legal marketing employ misleading
methods, further compounded by others...?

Great comments about how Gerry has created the current situation with TLC, his treatment of women and his rampant narcissism. Right on brother!

Larry Flynt of Hustler must love
Gerry, at least, Gerry's Firm helped
to establish the modern Porno empire.
His Firm lost about every case it filed
against Hustler,
Just read the federal reports.
But, maybe some of you have been
reading all the Spence marketing
material, and ignored the actual reality
as to his firm's losing record.
But, so many of you are tied into
Gerry marketing methods
So, what about client's of his firm,
those " little people", in the expermiment,
as Norm calls it. ?

Anyone have any idea how much Rex Parris is being paid to be "counsel" to the board?

Spence's prior law firm shattered in
the late 1990's.
So, what is this line about his law pards are
his friends ?
Spence had Bob Rose as his friend.
But, the old pards, they are now mostly
solo. Moraririty was cut loose too.
He was Spence's biggest faciltator, worshiper
You think some in TLC were treated
real shabby, you don't know the 1/4 of
stuff, at least, yet.
A fiction is not a fact, Gerry established
that in his Miss Wyoming case,
when the federal appeal court ruled
against all his assertions, that is
the offical record
But, maybe for marketing purposes
that don't fly with you kook aid
high flyer marketers.

Hypocrisy is the new mission statement for TLC. It sure doesn't follow the mission statement they publicize and that is printed in the inside cover of each issue of the Warrior. It has been rewritten by the new president, Spence and their yes man cronies to read "The Trial Lawyers College is dedicated to training and educating (RICH WHITE) lawyers and judges (NOT ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T GIVE ANY MONEY FOR THEIR PROGRAM) who are committed to (SPENCE AND HIS NEW CHURCH) to the jury system and to representing and obtaining justice for individuals (JUST BE SURE TO REFER THE CASES TO ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS); the poor, the injured, the fortten, the voiceless, the defenseless, and the damned (UNLESS WE DON'T WANT SUCH PEOPLE IN OUR TRIBE, THEN WE WILL THROW THEM OUT) and to protecting the rights of such people from corporate and government oppressions (BUT WE ARE A CORPORATION AND LOVE TO OPPRESS PEOPLE WHO WON'T JOIN OUR CULT). In all of its activities, the Trial Lawyers College will forster and nourish an open atmosphere of caring for people (UNLESS YOU DISAGREE WITH US) regardless of their race, age, creed, religion, national origin, physical abilities, gender or sexual orientation. (BUT WE DON'T WANT ANY SUCH PEOPLE ON OUR BOARD AND WE WILL WEED OUT ANY ON OUR STAFF BECAUSE WE CAN, WE WANT A CLUB THAT IS ALL WHITE, WEALTHY AND MOSTLY MALE.) We do not offer training for those lawyers who represent government, corporations (UNLESS YOU ARE THE "COUNSEL" FOR TLC THE CORPORATION) or large government interests.
Jake - fglsjbjn@aol.com

Gerry Spence never professed to
be Mother Terresa.
Rich, white, powerful
well he strives for that, he is not
poor, black and powerless.
But, then neither is Ken Starr, Mr
Pepperdine Dean, the old Reagan legal
intercicle.
Gerry can'tchange the color of
his skin.
So, he is white.
So is Norm.
So is Greenfield
So is Mike.
What is this new race card, gender card thing.
You all noted Morris Dees as
the top donor.
Some real curve balls put
in the mix.

Spence's current wife is white, who when
younger had black hair,
are some of you holding that against him,
that he has a white wife, who had
black hair. See references above to
the Spence book.
All this color coded thing of late.
This site is really playing the radical fem card.
Would Dorwkin be rolling over in
her grave, she was a client of the
Spence Firm..( all that Hustler matters/ cases).

The anon. posting about how Gerry refers to "little people" and my own rememberances of Gerry talking about the "little people" really says alot about the current man who has no "little people" on his board of directors. All except Milton Grimes are white and all are wealthy. Where is the representative for the "little people" on the board? Oh yeah, he threw the only member of the board who solely represents little people, Fredilyn Sison, off the board.

Rex just got a big judgement for defimation, against the founder of Guess Jeans company.
And, you all wonder why Rex is some Special Counsel to TLC in view of what Norm has been coooking up.
Since when is it against the law to belong to an association(ORG) that has white rich men in it ?
And, then some of you play a race card beased on the color of the hair of Spence's wife.
And , how are people being oppressed who don't belong to the TLC ?
Oh, so you are under the impression you are just not very good(as a Lawyer) if you don't have some TLC lable stamped on you.
Well those drinking the cool aid were the cool aid marketing distributors too, for a spell, so it is not exactly like you were not exploiting the whole situation for your own agenda, yet, now some of you are crying foul.
Norm, is not exactly Heuey Newton of the black Panthers, last time he got his mug shot in the papers he was as lilly white as any who ever graced the pages of a TLC photo shoot.

How did a bunch of losers "make " Gerry "something"... the big question raised by the latest Fem Annon supporer on matters ?
You kool aid drinkers took the Spence name , put it on your marketing runs, and exploited it, are you the ones in griping fear that unless you flaunt the Spence name(methods) in your own practice come-ons you are a loser, a nothing, a fraud, who went to a law school that is nothing but a "fraud" ?
Norm really has some U shaped mirrors up lately.
Yes, the Anita Hill School of: drag up the coke bottes on the Peak, FEM wars against young suitors, when Gerry was a young Turk, feeling his oats.
How often did Gerry go skiing with Al Simpson, now that the FEM card is being played in spades ?
Oh yes, the Ramada eater, just off I-25, near N Center.
Oh, how the board is getting prissy, now.
How come you all never brought up the section of the book about the sheep herder and the fight at the dance.
Page 403, paragraph: "I(Spence) was a pariah".
He notes the Teton Coffee shop.( 402).
And, Specne notes: People like Orville Griffey grow old and alone in strange ways.( p.405).
Growing old, and alone is not something unique to some guy like Spence, it is a large part of the human condition. Norm just wants to stick it in Spence's face, because he thinks he is a young turk, still.
Oh, what about the section that notes:
"inbreeding"( page 404).
and on those who judged Spence( p. 407).
Yes, the perfect FEMS,(with those spiffy grades) who now are miffed, they wonder if they are losers, if not associated with the Spence logo, as it is a lonely hard cruel word out there, trying to be stand up as a Esquire, in the pits of court rooms, USA.

As to Sison, etc:
I refer you to Gerry's book: "the rest of you will end up representing the dredges of system-----"(page 223).
But, then he was referring to the Dean( Law school), on how students will evolve as they leave law school.
So, Spence represented the Marcos(Queen), and traveled around on Doris Duke's jet.
That page(223) stands in stark contrast to the method.
Thus, the Spence Logo, which all the cool aid drinkers are now the distributers i. e Spence cool aid marketing distributors.

It says right on page 431: Gerry...."refuses to represent the rich."
Wasn't Andrea Dworkin kinda rich when she had all those suits against Hustler going on, represented by the Spence Firm.
Of course, Marcos stole billions from a Nation, and was uber rich.(with his wife dipping into the booty).
Ironic, now the "black haired " is thrown back in Spence's face, Net-speak.
Spence has nothing but good things to say about his ex wife( p 429).
Where is all this FEM rage coming from as Norm is "stirring the pot", brewing up, some
mirror mix.
Spence saw the discontent of the yuppies coming out of law schools, and milked it:
exhibit 1, Mike a self confessed ex cool aid drinker, Pepperdine U, bloggist, who is part of the L A kool breeze club, now part of the PACK to bust the Spence myth, using the tools of blog-o-sphere electric cool aid static, a la the NORM channel

Flash backs from the Norm Channel
Before the jury verdict in the FEIGER TRIAL
FROM LEGAL BLOG WATCH:
"Pattis wonders whether Spence's signature "my client is a hero, the government is evil" argument will play effectively in Detroit. Pattis writes:

This is a risky argument. It works well out West, where gun racks are a commonplace and the woods are crawling with militiamen. Will it work in Detroit? The Motor City is a small slice of the third world, decaying year by year in the near midwest. There are plenty of folks there prepared to believe that but for evil people in Washington, life would be grand. But I have a hard time seeing Gerry Spence singing Aretha Franklin tunes; he's a pork and beans sort of cowboy better at fireside tales....
I can hear Spence's gravely voice now, and see him cock his head back, chest out, a spindily [sic] finger pointed at the prosecution table as he glares over the bridge of his nose. "But the king, the king has denied us the rights of Englishmen. He's taxed our papers, our tea, and now he wants to put soldiers in your home. He wants them to sleep in the bed your momma gave you as a wedding present. King George wants your wife to serve his soldiers supper while they sit at your table. You now have the privilege to serve all the king's men, but as a livery boy in the home you built with your own hands."
Norm, looks like your analysis on Spence was not too keen and on, then, so now you are
brewing a different Eastern pot of hashed over stew.
Spence has won every time painting the GOV as evil, bad, corrupt, and he did it in NY, in Detroit, in Idaho, in Portland, basically from coast to coast.
Is it you Norm who has some chip on your shoulder as to the Rockies, and "gun racks", and sheep herders, and pork and beans

Ever notice how Spence has never had a single female partner at his firm? Not a one!!
Ever notice how women are treated at TLC by Spence?
Have you heard him call women bitches, the c word and worse?
Have you heard him say women don't belong in the courtroom?
Have you heard him say that the women who come to TLC are only there because they are women and that they take up a spots that should go to more qualified white males? He says the same thing about minorities.
He is not a man who likes women, except for one thing......

Addressing a female as a "bitch" is degrading and reveals the character of the speaker.
No one was referring to race in quoting Gerry's own words. It was his attitude towards women and respect that was reflected in the book written years after the event.
Has Gerry changed? evolved?
Look at the current situation "he" has created at TLC not Norm and his opinions.

Why are some of you giving Norm such shit? He is not the one writing the above comments. He just posts what others write. At least Norm faciliatates a diaglogue which is more than I can say for TLC!

Sisson is touted as a big defender of child porno cases, as well as a Spence/ TLC programmer/ etc at TLC, the usual kool aid ads.
So, Norm is the one who asked Gerry on his blog about child porn, and so how is the method work in child porn(something to that effect(it is on the Spence BLOG the thread, and even a G S response.), & Norm, after you visit to the Ted Bundy exhibit... my my the curousity at large ?
As to the word "bitch" in Spence's book, he was being candid, he was not using socially accepted language, he was also, bragging about going to houses of prostitution on some trip as a Merchant Marine, and he never presented himself as Mr Perfect.
He won't get the eagle scout award.
He won't pass some FEM litmus tests, etc.
Cherry picking out of some 1996 book some events going back to th late 60's, you prove he is not perfect.
How many men have used the word "bitch" at some time in their life, and how many woman have used the word "bastard" ? (and context)
He did not write a book to make himself look like Mr Perfect, eagle scout.
He even noted some trip to a shrink in Denver, he wrote about drunken Indians in Fremont county, and there are a lot of drunken indians in that County. There is a lot of social problems in Wyoming, it is a place that is not a perfect place.
Yes, you can cherry pick some book, etc, and find things to ding Gerry.
He made it easy for you, as he never made himself out to be Mr Perfect.

Where has Norm been given crap(above) ?
If a person responds is that a problem ?
Spence's life is not being micro-scoped, as some FEMs pick out some word he said on some spur of the moment, over 40 years ago.
Is that part of the cult theme.... If any respond, then TLC must be a cult, is that the story method.
Amazing.
Spence is never going to meet some litmus test of MR perfect in some Clubs.

Let's see you defend Spence's book "Bloodthirsty Bitches and the Pious Pimps of Power." He definitely used the word bitch in a derogatory manner for that one.

Norm has not been given crap, as to any comments noted above --above No 42.
Spence is the one who the FEMS are now on some war path, picking out some word he said back in
the late 60's on some ski runs, as he was using some alpha male lingo to speak about his soon to be Number 1 squeeze, or wife as it turned out.
Norm put up the mirror thing, now the mirrors are like rotating 360 degee in some high speed scans, all over.
It seems all posts above 42 have been civil, and responded to the myraid of issues raised, and the grist mill.
Norm puts up a topic which is of intense interest in many places, so surely you don't want brand A aid cool aid, any more than brand B cool aid.

It seems like the poll put up(as per Norm's research) on which TLC members are most vulnerable in the next restructing, it was right on....
those over 50 % were restructered so to speak.
TLC is like any other org, there is in-house politics, in-fighting, it is like any place where a group of people are in pecking orders, in a society, in a mix, it has its own caste system, structure, and way of operating.
It is not an Indian tribe.
Don't some of you know that ?
Most of the people in TLC have L L C's,
L L.P's, P C's, etcs.
Add to that a mix of egos, and then there is a whole dynamics where Maragret Mead would be on this board ever day, reading about the stuff on Norm's blog

My wife loves Nacny Grace.(she is like a Grace groupie)
I don't watch her(Show) and try to avoid her show.
Too much of a downer a constant drum beat.
I can't defend, that thing by Spence, won't try, you nailed that one.
Touche, (IN RE Spences Book on Bloodthirsty etc)

Presumption of innocence,
yes, Grace usually covers some low life, where
he is all but officially deemed officially guilty.
usually some person on the lower ebb of
society, and life.
Where is Nancy on the Jeffery Skillings
of the World. ?
Skillings has a group of groupie bloggers
now advocating for a get out of jail card/ free pass.

Norm, can you give us more details on the member of the old guard who is writing a book about TLC? You mentioned it in one of you blog posts a while back.

That old guard should check w/
me I know more about all the
dead bodies in Jackson Hole, than
anybody, and stuff back long time,
I have not written a book,
Nobody ever heard of G Spence outside
of Wyo, until St Martins gave him a
book, that was his great marketing
thing.
Now, is some so called old guard,
going to be unguarded.
The use of old guard, kind
of says, it all, Guard the Teton Palace jewels.

Wonder what Shockey and Schuster would say about Spence? They were his long time law partners along with Moriarity. No more!! Used up and thrown out. Or how about Jeff Gooch? Or former associate Scott Ray? Or better yet, Louann Cloy. There are a lot of people who know where the bodies are buried. The unauthorized biography of Spence would sure be a different read than his "Making of a Country Lawyer."

Yep, so true, so many axed in
J- Hole, and so much more,
so far below the radar.
But, digging deep into all that,
that would be far more interesting,
than the TLC stuff.
It is intriguing, but the old pards,
they to had drunk the kook aid
so, would take an insighful
person to peel way back down
to the core.
Fasinating prospect.
Further, throw in some ex clients--
not treated right.
There is such a large landscape to
work with.

I spoke with a person who was a friend of an ex Spence Pard(a mutual friend), and asked him why Mr.... (ex Spence Pard) had broken up and is no longer with the Spence Firm.
He stated to me that Mr.... was just tired of arguing over money.
Spence must have really controlled the money.
However, in small firms with less than 20 people, where the Senior guy has his son, in the firm(Jr--so to speak) and some clique it is very difficult on other pards, often resulting in firm breakups(at some point).
It was not long after Spences 1996 book(Making of..) was published that the old Spence Firm broke up.
Also, I have seen other firms break up, over how profit sharing is cut, and it becomes the major area, where break- ups happen.
However, it would not suprise me if some of the old pards,(ex) want the Spence myths to continue, it fosters their thing, like the other cool aid-drinkers.
Besides the Spence marketing was what brought biz to their doors, the Spence name--rain-making. Most ironic, Spence says he has a perfect record---but the firm that bears his name, hardly so.

Of course, there is the logistics thing as well.
Jude and Rex are right there near Gerry's Abode in Santa Barbara, and can meet in CA--at the drop of a hat.(as they take control over more and more, and others are so call restructrued off....
So, it is a California thing. And, on his blog Gerry toots the horn of Joey Lowe, another S Ca attorney.(who Norm got steamed over, saying he was out of control(on the Missouri matters).
It is almost like an East(Norm/ Greenfield) vs West, the Ca intercicle thing, at this point.
Plus, it is blog professionals(MIKE/ NORM) vs the non-wired, as Rex etc don't traffic in BLOG lanes.

Since Rex graced the board, and faced down toady Norm, on what Rex calls "bitching",
I just wanted to put up, what the Guardian Newpaper said about the Jeans Mogul thing:
"In 2007, he(Marciano) bought an 84.37-carat white diamond at Sotheby's for just under $16.2m. The jewel is the largest top-quality, brilliant-cut white diamond ever to appear at auction.".
The Jeans Mogul, Marciano, is running for the Governor of California, and
on his campaign website for the governorship of California, Guess Jeans co-founder Georges Marciano declares he is "Fighting for the Forgotten Average Citizen" and "Putting People First, Not the Rich".
Wait, that is what Rex and Gerry are saying, fighting for the "little people".
But those little people who post here:
it is just crap, right Norm, as Rex played off your corral 'em, in, like cattle, on the cyber zones. Ya, round 'em up, and feed 'em corn fed cyber stew, and have Rex ride in, and make his prononcuments on the "economy" is burning up, in flames, and Gerry is doling out 8 to 9 figures in TLC "opportunity costs", which is a lot more than that diamond ring cut in London of the Guess Mogul.
Some alleged stolen art,(never proved up) resulted in some sting of the Guess Mogul.
Well, no Gems or diamonds in the rough are apparently to be found here by Rex, if we are to take his latest post at face value.

If the Guess(Jean) Mogul had millions in art stolen from him, why did the L A County Police / Sheriff do nothing ?
Rex, can you educate us on that, or the lessons to be learned ?
I mean you can add some opportunity cost lesson here, can't you, Rex. ?
Or, is it, you want to keep Norm close as your very good friend, Rancho De BUD !
This is all intriguing matters; the art world of ritzy L A, the rich Mogul, running for the Governor of CA, the non-profits in Jackon Hole, the world economy burning up in flames,
bitching of Norm on the WWW(As you call it), the ex E.D. of TLC, the little people, the
nature of cyber world, the use of time, and value of money, and education, and
society.
Gerry still has in his books some big million figures on his jury verdict( the cases he never lost), only problem they were never bankable after appeal.
Welcome to Norm's WWW site, Rex, any other gems of wisdom to offer up, at pro bono levels,
Lets see as Judge White seemed to see it --some very rich guy wanted to toy with people who had no power(some regarded as crap), to destroy them, and somehow, a twist, curve balls emerged out of that.
Curious, your email out of the blue to Norm on his own cyber turf.